In the kaleidoscope of chaos...

For the languages I have studied:

I understand more French than I can speak

however

I sign better than I understand ASL because of my poor visual processing abilites.

Thank you! How have you been?

I want to learn ASL but I don't know if I can pick that one up from books and things. Are there sites out there to teach?

I'm all right.

I had tried learning ASL from books but really didn't make any progress until I took actual classes from an actual human.

Not sure about specific sites, my computer doesn't display videos that well. But I know there are some.

Thanks =] I'll see what I can find. Come to think of it, YouTube's probably got some pretty good stuff.

It is extremely easy to learn ASL from books - I started it when I was 5 with Sesame Street books, when I put effort into learning the whole thing I started with an ASL dictionary. The only thing you need a person or tutorial for is grammar, and that isn't as important as knowing the words, especially if you actually have someone to "speak" it to once you learn some (you will easily learn the correct grammar by observing).

Just remember that SEE (Signed English) is not the same as ASL, especially when/if learning grammar. If not learning grammar, the only thing you need to be aware of with SEE is that, for example, there is no ASL sign fo "is" and you should simply skip such words if trying to use ASL with English grammar.

I know it's not Signed English. ASL was my brother's first language. We used to be very good at it, but it was discouraged when he became able to hear (I guess they thought he'd not learn English if we spoke in ASL) and we've both forgotten it at this point.

Okay. I only mentioned it in relation to learning from a book, that'd probably be the most common mistake if you used a dictionary. The dictionaries do include the sign for words like "is" sometimes.

I'm probably technically bilingual, but I still classify myself monolingual because I'm not yet 100% fluent and don't feel comfortable saying I'm bilingual when I have to go slow and think about stuff moreso in French than English by far

I consider myself polylingual even though I'm not fluent in anything. But that's why the question says what do you consider yourself as, instead of what are you. It's subject to interpertation. I think I spelled that wrong. See what I mean about not being fluent in anything?

What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language? If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?

I think for me with French it was the grammar and how there's only one present tense form in that language whereas in English there's different conjugations that are all present tense, that was difficult and I still have trouble with grammar

Japanese has a word aizo, which conveys a simeltaneous feeling of love and hatred toward the same object. Do you, as a non-Japanese speaker, have trouble with that concept? Would you expect the Japanese to be more comfortable with that concept than would be an English speaker?

I think in that regard it all depends as to whether or not someone has felt love and hatred at the same time toward the same object, even if there isn't a word in English for it, it can still be felt

It can be felt but it may be very uncomfortable or seem unnatural or abnormal. Do you think the Japanese would feel less negatively about that particular mix of emotions than Anglophones might?

I don't know, also I am curious as to how common that word is in Japanese, is it an everyday word or at least something most people who are raised with the language know, or less common? There are words in English I don't know that have concepts I have trouble with, usually science ones or really big words lol, but still. I think with the juxtaposition of love and hate it's fair game as to how anyone would react to it.

Hm, good question. I'll have to look into it more I guess. Still curious what others will have to say on the topic though.

That's a separate question from the one I answered. And I think, in some cases, this can be true, but not in the case you mentioned. Whether it is "normal" or not would be perceived by asking others about this feeling and if they have had it or heard of people having it. OBE's (astral projection) are far from being considered "normal" by many English-speakers.

(1) The most difficult aspect of learning a language for me, being self taught is not having someone to talk TO. So, not having a native speaker, I don't know if I'm emphasizing correctly, or using certain words or phrases correctly.

(2) I don't have a problem with the whole love AND hatred toward something. Be it an object or an idea. As far as the second half of this question, I'm not really sure. I think it depends on the individual.

What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language? If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?

I find the various vocal quirks outside of accents the most difficult. When I was the only student in Spanish class who couldn't [and still can't] roll my r's, I tended to get frustrated. I also find irregulars to be troublesome, since the only way to deal with them is memorization.

Japanese has a word aizo, which conveys a simeltaneous feeling of love and hatred toward the same object. Do you, as a non-Japanese speaker, have trouble with that concept? Would you expect the Japanese to be more comfortable with that concept than would be an English speaker?

I don't have a problem with the concept of love-hatred, especially since I have such a relationship ... toward the idea of love, actually. I'd expect the Japanese to have more examples available, such in literature, since they have a specific term for it, but it's up to an individual to understand it. So, I suppose I'm trying to say people have to experience a concept to grasp it, although some may be more predispositioned to understanding.

I don't think the Japanese nessecerily would have more literature available because in that particular case, the conecpt does not need to be specifically described. In the case of a "partner", it would be described throughout the whol novel just by reading it, and even if the same novel was re-written (not translated, but like retold by another author) in Japanese, they would not necessarily ever use that word in the book which centers around the concept.

In the case of an object, it would be throughout the whole paragraph, or like, "I am so glad I finally got that fucking thing to work, now I can have my ecstasy in using it!!!!", which would also have been described at the same time while the novel was describing his attempts at setting it up.

What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language? If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?
~It depends on the language, I think...although a part of it seems to be memorization for me. In Spanish, I have a hard time with the irregular verb tenses and which verb form to use when. With Japanese, it's the writing that kills me.

Japanese has a word aizo, which conveys a simeltaneous feeling of love and hatred toward the same object. Do you, as a non-Japanese speaker, have trouble with that concept? Would you expect the Japanese to be more comfortable with that concept than would be an English speaker?
~I guess I could see how that concept might be difficult for an English speaker possibly, but I do believe that a love-hate relationship exists so I don't have trouble with the concept. I think it depends mostly on peoples' experiences and own attitudes rather than the words themselves (I'm sure that's not making any sense...sorry!). Like, if you believe in something like aizo, then the word/concept isn't going to be hard for you to grasp...but, if you don't believe in it (Japanese or English-speaking) you'd probably have a harder time understanding it.

Don't mind the funny insult in my answer for the first question , all in fun. I thought i"d say this now, before you find my halarious not really an insult, and call me insulting! What! Parish the thought. I'm from Canada, and french is the second language, but I don't speak a word of it. I know very basic spanish, but not enough to get bye probably, sad, but true. I know people who know tuns of languages and can speak 3 confortabley. They're amazing people. I sure as hell couldn't do that with the time constraints I feel I have.

What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language? If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?

I think the most difficult aspect is getting the accent right, no matter what the language.

Japanese has a word aizo, which conveys a simeltaneous feeling of love and hatred toward the same object. Do you, as a non-Japanese speaker, have trouble with that concept? Would you expect the Japanese to be more comfortable with that concept than would be an English speaker?

I do not have trouble with that concept, and find it interesting there is actually a word in some language for it.

As for the second part, possibly, because there is a word for it, so they have grown up with the concept.

Hope this helps!

What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language?

I find that sometimes there is the barrier that's been put up in how you can pronounce words that differ greatly in sound from the mother tongue. I found it difficult to pronounce certain sounds in Japanese in full sentences, but I also have found that through use it does get easier. As Beth has also said, rolling the r's in Spanish is definitely a challenge when it's not something you're brought up to do.

If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?

If I only spoke English, then I would certainly find it daunting learning a new language. There usually isn't a lot of interaction in learning a new language unless you go to lessons with another individual which isn't always convenient for the person on the go. I've learnt nearly all I have from books or simply picking up certain things from my family. It all just depends on context of how one starts to learn a language. Once you've picked up a few words and constructed them into sentences, it all seems easier to learn more. Another thing that is hardest is learning the culture and context in which certain words are used, which I still find strange in English.

You are talking about slang, which is indeed very strange in English but I don't think it technically counts as part of learning the language. For example 20 years ago no adult could understand their teenagers using words like "ill" to say something is cool (awesome, good). And no, "cool" was not originally used in that context either, but has been in the dictionary for some time now... although currently, "McJob" is also in the dictionary... I wonder if McDonald's got paid for that...

Rolling Spanish 'r's has never been a problem for me. I pronounce all names as they are given, a name is not a "translation" it is a NAME and it pisses me of to some degree when Juan says his name is "Jon" or something - it isn't. It pisses me off far more if it is someone other then Juan who says that. However I have never had a name that I couldn't pronounce with the correct accent, regardless of what I said in my answer - the problem there is knowing it in the first place, and the fact that it's many words, or words that accidentally sound different when combined, are not actually supposed to sound different, and are not understood by native speakers if you say them slowly and properly. We have many examples of the same thing in English though I can't think of any specific ones atm. But ministrations of the tongue and things like that are easy to accomplish, IMO.

Not everyone can do it, it may seem easy to you but I've met several people who can't do it.

came over here via clasped

What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language? If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?

The most difficult thing for me is retaining the information. For example, I've taken several years of Spanish over a long period of time and yet I still only have rudimentary skills. If you don't practice, you don't remember it. If you're learning a foreign language, I think it is very important to find someone to communicate with in that language and to not be hesitant to use it.

Japanese has a word aizo, which conveys a simultaneous feeling of love and hatred toward the same object. Do you, as a non-Japanese speaker, have trouble with that concept? Would you expect the Japanese to be more comfortable with that concept than would be an English speaker?

I can understand Aizo because I have felt that way towards something. As a English speaker, I say.. "I have a love/hate relationship with object." It would be nice to have a word for it. I think many people understand the concept behind "Aizo"; and that they just don't have a word for it in their language. The feeling remains the same.

Problem with that is most people who speak Spanish or whatever language you are learning are not willing to converse with someone who is a beginner, unless you actually go to the country or culture where it is used (although in the case of ASL, they are somewhat arrogant and will dislike you a lot (in general) if you do go to "their area" and then mess up).

I put "Other" because American Sign Language obviously cannot be read or written, and the language native users of that language use to write and read is my native language.

Language does not shape your behaviors because cultures shapes your behaviors. The ONLY thing a language may do is something such as whether or not a certain guttural tone may be considered rude (for example if you speak some African languages, such a tone is actually part of the language and might mean "beautiful" and therefore can't possibly be offensive). Even gestures do not apply to languages, unless it is a signed language. Gestures apply to culture not language. Mexico and Spain are two entirely different countries and cultures, and each are insulted if you refer to them as the wrong one, yet their language is almost exactly the same.

"What is the most difficult aspect of learning a new language? If you speak only your native tongue(s), then what do you imagine would be the most difficult aspect?"

For a spoken language with no throat noises, the hardest parts are: a) having the correct accent(s) and infliction, especially if the person who taught you (when applicable) is not using those accents. b) Trying to understand someone who is talking fast, espeically if their accents are not what you are used to hearing.

"Japanese has a word aizo, which conveys a simeltaneous feeling of love and hatred toward the same object. Do you, as a non-Japanese speaker, have trouble with that concept?"

Of course not. I have felt this plenty of times (although usually not towards an object). It is an EXTREMELY well-known concept to me, and as well is familiar to most Americans - this question often shows up in MySpace surveys.

"Would you expect the Japanese to be more comfortable with that concept than would be an English speaker?"

No, I assume they would be less so, from what I have read about Japan at Outpost 9 (a black American teaches English in Japan and describes his days - "race" is yes important to some degree here because various things are mentioned in the logs based on this fact), Japanese people are very "strange" about sex, and as well as what I have seen from various Asian culturality in other places, especially traditional ones, they are less likely to be able to have a 100% loving relationship where one would die for the other out of something other then duty, and for that reason are probably less likely to experience this particular phenomenon since it's most common extreme manifestation would be towards a "relationship partner". Please note I am only making such an observation when 'forced' to, and having this view about Japanese people in "relationships" is not something I would normally think about.

I put Bilingual, change that to Polylingual and add, I speak l337.

Since they do track it by username, they shuld have an 'edit' option.

Wish I could get Shadow to fill this out for you - he speaks like 12 languages, and he learned Italian first yet English is native (he spoke Italian FIRST but stopped being around the Italian people before those "skills" were solidified).

aizo...I think i understand the feeling they gave that word to but still trying to grasp the actual cocept is hard. I think i would have to finish learning the language and hear it used in proper context a few times to understand





*Woof*

AH! Where did you come from?!

It's a tough feeling to begin with, I think... but I found the word because I was looking for something to describe what I'd already been experiencing..so I guess that makes it easier for me to understand. I wanna finish learning Japanese too... how's yours coming along?

I picked "No - I will never have the time" for the whether will I ever learn another language option, the real answer is "no, the learning experience was so traumatising I don't ever wish to live through that again".

Nothing against the English language, but the whole being eleven years old, not having any actual choice on being dumped into a new environment and the whole identity crisis that came with it was something I still haven't fully recovered from. The learning of the language itself wasn't half as bad, it's just something forever tainted with a bad place in life I don't ever wish to think of again. Ever.